Yep. She’s baaaaaack! (No thanks to Handsome.)
It seems like ages ago that I last wrote about the Flame and the havoc this woman created in my marriage. Twice. After our DDay #1, when I learned that Handsome had been communicating with her again by text for nearly 3 years, it was crushing. It was actually worse than his physical affair (the one I knew about at the time) because I knew that she actually mattered to him. He had pined away for her for almost 30 years. He admitted that he thought she was “the one who got away” for him and said that a part of him would always love her. I was squarely in my angry stage, so I think I told him to take that part of himself, stick it up his ass, and move to a hotel. That didn’t happen, but he did eventually send her a short and to the point no contact letter – in his own unique handwriting so she would know it came from him. He sent it to her at work. I sent a copy to her husband (sorry, not sorry).
Time flashes forward to the present. Our son, who is outwardly pretty chill, started to develop some odd habits in the late Spring (not wanting to touch door knobs or share certain items, coupled with a big increase in hand washing). We scheduled him with a therapist to evaluate him and see if it’s just a phase or an issue of concern. The week before Labor Day I was away at my happy place, so Handsome took him. He walked into the waiting room and BOOM, there sits the Flame with her son.
Now, if I had the ability to write the script of how this played out, my sex addict partner would have taken a seat in the furthest corner of the large waiting room, ignored her, read his Kindle and kept his damn mouth shut. Alternately, if overwhelmed, he would have grabbed our son and fled. (I would have gladly paid the therapist’s late cancel/ no show fee.) Or he could have called his sponsor. Or called me. Or something. Just crossing paths with her – although surprising because she lives far from the therapist’s office – isn’t a problem because in his circle plan that’s just unintentional contact with an affair partner. He didn’t do anything to cause that contact.
Handsome, however, didn’t follow my script. For that matter, he didn’t follow the script he previously agreed to numerous times and that we actually role played with our CSAT, knowing that he’d likely encounter some of his APs at work. (If approached he’s supposed to say “I have nothing to say to you. Stay away from me,” and walk away.) Nope. And he ignored his circle plan and shifted the incident from unintentional contact with an affair partner to intentional contact. Handsome admitted that he approached her and asked her to go out in the hall with him AND THEN HE APOLOGIZED TO HER.
Recall that the first time he allegedly cut off contact with her, he called her to apologize for MY behavior for calling her out for her three months of highly inappropriate messages with him. He left that door open to future contact by parting on good-guy terms. He knew full well how incredibly disloyal, disrespectful, and flat-out wrong and hurtful I found that to be then. And I wasn’t wrong. That “I’m so sorry my wife is such a nut” apology set the stage for a 3-year emotional affair. Imagine how I feel about him doing it again?
Did he disclose this to me that day? No. The next day? No. The day after that, during which we had a long conversation about transparency and honesty? Nope. He told me the day after that – four days after the incident. In the first iteration of the story he said he spoke to her because he knew he needed to lay the groundwork for doing his Step 9 amends. When I blew my gasket about that (talking to her for the purpose of continuing to communicate with her??? wtf?) he walked that back and said that no, he was actually trying to do his amends with her right then.
Folks, he’s still on Step 4. He’s nowhere near Step 9, hasn’t discussed Step 9 with his sponsor, and WHY ON EARTH DOES THIS WOMAN GET AN AMENDS???
I think the women my husband cheated with deserve the miserable lives they lead, but I can dig up a sprinkle of empathy for most of them because he lied about everything to them and they bought it. They got suckered. (They suckered him too, but that’s because he was an absolute fool.) This woman, however, knew better. She knew he had a wife and kids who loved him. She knew we weren’t living apart or getting divorced or anything else. She still became his affair partner, cheating on her own husband in the process.
While it is true that there is room in Step 9 for amends to affair partners, the amends are subject to the important exception “when [doing] so would injure them or others.” I am the embodiment of the injured “other.”
I went all kinds of bananas. I moved out of our bedroom and when he asked me after a few days when I was moving back in I calmly replied that I’d move back in once he found a new place to live. He cried. It must have terrified him because he reached out to our CSAT and she saw us for an emergency session on Labor Day.
He has no good explanation for what he did. He claims he panicked and didn’t think though any consequences. His new therapist read him the riot act for that (hurray! the Doc would have spent weeks convincing him he shouldn’t feel bad for making “a stupid mistake”). I think he understands – as much as he is capable of doing so – that he deeply hurt me again.
As a basic condition of him remaining in the house (because in my mind his bags were packed) he has to have daily contact with a recovery resource. So far, he’s been diligent about it, but let’s be honest… that’s no big thing. Our CSAT and the new therapist are putting their heads together which feels much more reasonable to me than the Doc who was so intent on going it alone that he had to be begged to even talk to Dr. Minwalla after Handsome’s intensive with him. I am fine. My head is in a decent place. Our marriage is very strained, but we are talking normally and doing normal things – just with zero romance, affection, or sex – and he’s trying to figure out why his recovery plummeted. (There was no slow descent out of a healthy place. It’s like he fell off a cliff.) I’m dealing with my own betrayal trauma. He can deal with the circus of his recovery. Or not. He didn’t initiate seeing her (the reason our CSAT implored me not to toss him out) but he did initiate the communication with her to try to manage her image of him, yet again, which is frightening to me. It’s imperative to him that she thinks highly of him, even if it destroys me in the process. He denies this, but I think his actions prove otherwise.
If there is a silver lining here, it’s that apparently her home and marriage are in a sorry state. I had to ask the receptionist to move our standing appointment with our son’s therapist to avoid seeing the Flame each week and she let slip that the Flame already switched days to avoid Handsome. She apparently claimed that he “devastated her life” thus necessitating her son’s therapy. (Um, more likely her son needs therapy because he has a traitorous ho for a mom, but… whatever.) If Handsome did destroy her life somehow? Good. Karma sucks.
Ugh…so sorry my friend. Stay strong and do what you need to do to take care of you! ❤️
Thanks Leigh! I’m trying to. I keep telling myself that I can’t make sense of the senseless, so while what he did is absolutely baffling to me, in his distorted thinking it seemed reasonable. I could try to explain to him 87 ways why it wasn’t reasonable, but I don’t know if he really understands it. He gets that it hurt me, but he seems to think that’s a “me” thing rather than a reasonable response to his scraping off that scab. It’s frustrating because I thought we were past this.
xo
☹️
I am so sorry. Please know that I can understand. My husband’s acting out was mostly with prostitutes but he had a very big emotional thing going that very nearly destroyed our marriage in a way that the prostitutes never could. He crossed over into love addiction which is definitely a close cousin to SA. My experience was that talking and explaining did little to change things. I agree they just don’t get it. What did make a difference was setting firm boundaries. I had to enlist the help of the CSAT bc my husband just ignored boundaries. In fact, I think boundaries are a big issue with SAs. We all have past loves or meet people who are attractive, but if we are committed to someone, we don’t cross that boundary. The boundary had to be firm with my husband. No BS of any kind and if the BS couldn’t stop, he needed to move out and work on that. That was over a year ago and no more BS, at least that I’ve found. But the sad part for me is that the romantic, special feeling that I used to have for my husband is gone. I still love him, but I don’t know if the other feelings will come back. I have to be honest. If I were younger, I’d probably be gone. This shit is soul crushing and horrible to self-esteem. I’ve had to work really hard to get myself back. But my husband knows, the future is non-negotiable. I join with the others in advising you to take care of yourself!!!!
Thanks Maggie. I waffle between feeling like I got a bit steamrolled by our CSAT by being talked out of having him move out temporarily, and alternately feeling like it was right to let him stay under the circumstances. He didn’t look up the Flame or seek her out. He just showed up somewhere she happened to be. It was the starting of the conversation with her and the apology… jeeze that apology eats at me… that pushed it over the boundary. I don’t think that we’re done parsing this out yet. I need to see some actual, meaningful amends. Absent that, he does need some time to himself to figure out what really matters to him.
I agree. My guess was the “apology” was just an excuse to initiate the conversation. Looking for that little hit or whatever it is SAs get from this crap. I doubt that there was any sincere apology felt at this stage of his recovery. It’s just amazing to me the risks they take and for what? Just continue to take care of yourself as you are. You are handling this amazingly well. 😘
I’m curious as to why it matters if he sought her out or not. Isn’t the more important question: What did he do once he was confronted with her?
I get he didn’t go looking for her but once she was there he did what he did. If, instead of asking her to go out into the hall and apologizing to her, they ran off to a hotel room for an hour or two, would you let anyone justify his behavior by saying, “Well he didn’t know she’d be there. It’s not like he planned this,”? Would you try to rationalize his behaviour that way?
FWIW, I think you were steamrolled a bit. What’s the big deal if he had to stay at a hotel or with a friend or family member for a while? You get time to work through your feelings and he experiences soone real consequences for his inappropriate behavior. If you worked through it he could come back. It’s not like he had to move out and immediately sign a year long lease somewhere.
In retrospect Sam, with a few weeks of distance from the incident, I do feel steamrolled. While I understand the theory of our therapist’s distinction (focusing on him not seeking her out) I think she got this wrong. I’ve shared that with her privately. I don’t expect her to be perfect, but I do feel like we missed the boat on taking a healthy break when one was needed. I don’t think having him stay was beneficial for the marriage. If she thought it would be, then she sincerely misjudged the outcome. And you are , as usual, completely correct that we would never have had the “well, but…” discussion if they had shagged in the parking lot or gone to a hotel. And his circle plan draws no distinction between those actions and striking up a conversation with her. Our therapist shouldn’t have tried to draw a distinction where none exists.
From my perspective, there is zero justification for him speaking to the Flame. Zero. Neither he nor anyone else is going to convince me that it was justified. In the last four weeks I’ve made that abundantly clear. Outside of therapy we’ve had some very blunt discussions about what transpired. I do still feel, however, as though we missed an opportunity to deal with it appropriately when it transpired. I learned a lesson here about going with my gut and over-riding our therapist when necessary for my own well being. She is focused on the big picture of “us” which is great, except when it’s at my expense.
I hope you and the Mobster are off doing something fun this weekend!
❤️
I like the way you’re handling this. You’ve been giving him plenty of chances to recover but you put your foot down when necessary.
I’m trying Jack, but it’s hard when little is black and white. I don’t feel great about how this is playing out right now, but I’m hoping that’s something we can work on.
I couldn’t type the 9th step fast enough until I kept reading and saw that you are aware of the caveat “except when to do so would injure them or others.” I am sickened for you that he didn’t include you in “others”. YOU ARE the only “OTHER”. You are “IT”.
Mr. Perfect and I have gone over this scenario and he has always been emphatic that he would tell them to “get the fuck away from me”, or just turn around and walk away without saying a word. I don’t believe it, and while I don’t think he would apologize, I do think he would answer the question of “how are you”, and I also think he would mirror the question back to them.
I’m so sorry he still doesn’t get it, but you’ve always been firm in the fact that he needs to fix him, and you need to fix yourself due to this circus he unknowingly signed you up for. You will rise again, just like you always have. You’re a warrior and a survivor my dear xo
p.s. – How does Handsome feel knowing SHE wants to avoid HIM? I love the fact that she is still broken, if only for the fact that she blames him for devastating her life, yet she takes no accountability when she is the one who opened herself to it (and literally too…what a disgusting pig).
Great question… he seemed stunned. Like, legitimately shocked. (Maybe he thought they had some deep connection and she was just using him the same way he used the other side pieces? Interesting…) And there is zero accountability with this chick. Zero. She had absolutely no shame the first go-round in 2012, and clearly no shame in starting it all up again in 2015 either.
I think Handsome would struggle with being abrupt with any of the other women. He wouldn’t want them to think poorly of him or that he’s weird (mind you, they’re all bat poop crazy, but that’s beside the point). I think he’d have the polite “how are you” back and forth too. He says he wouldn’t. I’ve not been given a reason to believe that yet.
(sigh)
Bitches be crazy for sure 😡 i wish he would take these opportunities as ways to prove his loyalty to you, but all he’s doing is proving he’s still disloyal to you. Big huge breath BW, I hope it doesn’t come to this, but the way he’s behaving will force you to make alternative plans with your life that you, nor he, ever wanted to make xo
I wish the same SSA. Truly. He doesn’t see it as disloyal because in his compartmentalized mind it has nothing to do with me. I have no doubt that he doesn’t do these things “in spite of” me… he doesn’t think of me at all when he’s doing them.
xo
I can only imagine how painful this situation has been. I am so familiar with being shocked by how little BE seemed to understand my needs in the first couple years. They are so self absorbed and ignored us (took us for granted?) for so long, that it just doesn’t come that easily.
For the longest time BE had the mantra WWKD, what would Kat do (works for my real name too, as you know). Anyway, he tried super hard to remember that, but often would fall back on old ways. How do I know this? Because he hurt me over and over and over by his “in recovery” behavior.
They are such nice guys, remember? So nice on the surface, and also apparently in their addiction too, except when it comes to us and our needs. All the steps were challenging for me as was the whole 12 step process in the beginning. Once he completed the 12 steps though, we were in a much better groove. We had the same conversations about amends and it took a lot out of me. I was angry, I was sad, I was just so tired of it all.
Even though BE’s long term acting out partner wasn’t an old flame, or even someone he cared much about, he still wanted to apologize to her. He still said he was fully to blame. He still at times felt like she was a victim and deserved amends. It’s this strange poor me/I’m a bad person/I can make it better thinking.
Nope. She wasn’t a victim. She was a willing participant and yep, making amends to her would harm me. He FINALLY figured it out, but not before saying he would do an amends letter, but not send it. WHAT??? How does that help me? He was still admitting that she deserved amends. Even if he didn’t send it, I knew he felt that way and it really bothered me. With the help of me being HYSTERICAL about it all and also his sponsor setting him straight, he finally, awkwardly and with many more stumbles, did the step.
But I am with you sister on totally NOT understanding how they don’t get the things that hurt us. How can they not understand? Sex addicts are really effed up. In time though, we are in a much better place. Slowly but surely, he got it. It was agony for quite a while though. I am forever grateful for the 12 step program, but it hasn’t been easy. I hate that you/anyone else has had to go through this hell. xo
I am heartened that you and others not only understand, but went through similar BS on the road to healing and made it through. It is hell, but the prospect that we might get through it is one I need reassurance of right now. I’m feeling pretty worn down and defeated at the moment. I try really hard to keep a positive outlook, but these last few months have been crushing. It’s not as though Handsome isn’t doing anything -he’s doing meetings and therapy and all – it’s more that it seems to not be helping. I’m not sure why. I don’t think Handsome knows either. It’s frustrating. I’m just taking it day by day at this point.
❤️
I have never laughed at anything you’ve written until I read Handsome was laying the groundwork for step 9. That’s also known as the loophole step. Having also been through AA, it’s fairly well known that Bill Wilson, the “Bill W.” who co-wrote the 12 steps was a womanizer. The theory is that he created the “or cause harm to others” so he could breeze through Step 9 without telling his wife. There’s a fair amount of support for this theory on the Internet.
Maybe I’m just a scuzzy guy, but I think he’s laying the groundwork in case you eventually leave, not for any steps.
I’m sad that it seems I’ll have to stick with my day job and give up on my dream to write for SNL…
I don’t think you’re scuzzy, in fact I fear that you’re 100% right. Handsome always had a Plan B. Always. Throughout the course of his adult life he has never been unattached/ truly single for very long. A few months, at most. I think the apology here was absolutely intended to open that door with this woman just enough that he could be on good terms to reach out to her again if/ when the need arises. It’s exactly what he did in 2012. And yes, I totally see where his recovery truly stands if he’s using the program itself as an excuse for crossing boundaries.
I didn’t know that about Step 9, but it makes sense. That loophole is huge. If Handsome ever makes it to steps 8 and 9 legitimately I’ll be curious to see who he thinks he owes amends to. My guess is that addicts have a very different idea of who they harm than the rest of us do.
I remember looking at BE’s Step 8 list (prep for Step 9, actually making the amends) and seeing that he had some girls from Law School on there that he stared at in the library (lusted after). They didn’t even know he was doing it. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?!! I felt like he was using the list to think back over all his gross and opportunistic behavior. I will say that nothing I said made any difference. It was only after his sponsor explained the step to him and the parameters and boundaries that he actually GOT the step. He tried to figure it out by himself, but came up with this crazy list that if I hadn’t been so traumatized, I would have laughed my ass off at. They are so fucked up.
Sorry Kat, this was tucked in Spam… yes, I think it’s going to be interesting to see how this plays out. To me, its not my step and not my amends, but the injured party isn’t the Flame, but her husband. It’s not the Whore, but her husband (not to mention her child who found his mom’s burner phone with all the ridiculous pics and texts on it)… and so on. I’m going to guess that those folks don’t even make the first list. Mind you, I think him trying to make amends to any of those folks would open wounds and cause harm, but I don’t even think he contemplates the harm he caused them. I’m sure there will be a couple of library-girl-like women on there too. I don’t want to get ahead of myself though. He still needs to get through Steps 4, 5, 6 and 7 first. 🙂
This. This is what grinds me down, day after day. They try (or not) to ‘work it out by themselves’ and what they come up with is gob-smackingly lame. Sad.
I’ve done the rounds of responses over and over again. Shock. Anger. Sadness. Hopelessness. Frustration. Numbness. Encouragement and tutoring. Hysteria. Despair.
I recently just gave up and accepted that it is what it is. I told him that I will not fight any more. I am going to live my own life, parallel to his and that if he wants a real relationship with me then he has to work in his recovery from his intimacy disorder. If and when I see any evidence of it, I may be willing to work on the recovery of our relationship. I am not holding my breath.
It is really difficult to know ‘how to be’ with him now.. Cool and polite? Friendly but aloof? Indifferent and withdrawn? Wtaf? My teeth hurt from all the gritting I do.
This is in reply to Kats response to you B.A.
…He tried to figure it out by himself, but came up with this crazy list that if I hadn’t been so traumatized, I would have laughed my ass off at. They are so fucked up.
The intimacy disorder that interferes with their ability/willingness to reach out to others for guidance is a huge obstacle in recovery. My husband could never step outside and call someone for advice in the midst of something. He tries to figure it out on his own (almost always an epic fail due to the disordered thinking) and then has to deal with consequences that would have been foreseeable if he had just called someone.
Sad, for sure. 💔
Missing software = broken/non-relational/monumentally selfish/fucked. Final calculation = our agony and heartbreak.
Monumentally selfish for sure, Jangled. It’s baffling to me how someone gets this damaged. Yes, his mom was an alcoholic, but he was hardly a ward of the state. Two successful working parents, nice house in a lovely town, lots of family nearby, active in church. You get the idea. Life wasn’t perfect, and I’m sure it hurt, but his origin story is far from the disaster you might expect from someone this broken. 🙁
🤔🤯💜
I am a firm believer in Karma, what goes around, comes around. It is awful to admit but I get a lot of satisfaction when things don’t go the way the way my husband wants them to.