At our CSAT appointment this week, in the wake of Handsome’s boundary debacle, we spent a bit of time addressing the woman’s lack of boundaries with Handsome. (I think her lack of boundaries is beside the point, but I was willing to humor the CSAT.) The CSAT commented that if Julie realized that I was Handsome’s wife she probably wouldn’t have behaved the way she did. I’m 1000% certain that is untrue. I’m sure that Julie realized that I was Handsome’s wife, if not when she wrapped her arms around him, then certainly as the conversation progressed. She just didn’t care. In fact, it probably made it all the more exciting for her.
You see, Julie is probably one of those women who firmly believes that other women/ affair partners owe the spouse nothing. To me, that theory reeks of the same individualistic entitlement as the anti-vaxxer movement. [*note: I’m not drawing this comparison to start a debate about vaccinations. If the comparison stokes your ire and that’s what you’d choose to comment on, please save it.] You get vaccinated because, as a member of the herd, you have moral obligations to do no harm to other members of the herd. Disregarding those obligations is selfish and unconscionable, not because of the harm to the anti-vaxxer (enjoy your measles!!), but because by spreading disease you undermine the health of countless others and put the herd at risk. Similarly, as members of society, common morals dictate that we should not seek to undermine or destroy other relationships or families for our own personal pleasure. We are not entitled to chase our pleasure or our passion no matter the cost to others. “Win at any cost” is neither healthy nor productive and ultimately undermines the fabric that holds society together. Do people become affair partners all the time? Of course. Does it somehow make it right? No way. Suggesting that the affair partners are entitled to do what they do because they don’t owe anyone anything? That’s BS.
I am completely certain that Julie doesn’t get that. She never got the memo. Unfortunately for all spouses, there are an awful lot of people like Julie out there either waiting for or actively seeking out opportunities to destroy relationships for their own gain. My recovering sex addict husband doesn’t yet seem wise to their game. Fortunately, I know that and I’ve learned to look out for myself.
Absolutely agree – when a woman (I don’t even like saying woman because to me, they’re not even people) involves themselves with a married man, they completely devalue female empowerment and the sisterhood.
However, here’s how I see it: these women have/had no morals, values, self esteem, regret or remorse – so they were never empowered or sisterly anyway and therefore they can’t owe us what they don’t even know exists.
I’m not making excuses for them, but they aren’t like us and never will be and so it’s hard to understand for us why these women did what they did (and there were SO FUCKING MANY it’s shocking) – but they don’t have what we have or know what we know about being a decent human being.
I’m pissed because Mr. Perfect chose the complete opposite of me on so many occasions and with so many women who are beyond losers. but I realized the other day that all this time I thought Mr. Perfect was acting out with these pigs in an attempt to make himself feel like a King (which is how I always treated him), but I think it’s more that these lowest of low women were what he truly felt and believed he deserved.
I really hope he’s regaining and making up those backward steps xo
So sorry to be just seeing this… it ended up in Spam for some reason…
Handsome is very recently making up those lost steps. It took a while, but we’re moving on with forward steps.
xo
A-freakin-MEN. I agree 100 percent.
I 1000% don’t agree with the csat, are they male? Before I even read your comments I said to myself ‘oh she knew exactly who you were & she got off on doing what she did.’ Sadly there are many ‘Julie’s’ out there, must be something in the name 😉. I think that women do it to other women more than men do it to each other, it’s all part of the competition in their small insecure lives. I have never felt the need because I am confident in the person I am.
In all honesty I don’t think men always see it for what it is, but after infidelity has hit the fan they should. I think my friend that may be a contributor to the fact that it pissed you off. In all honesty if it had happened to Danny (name change😉) I think he would have climbed over the table! Possibly because of the look of murder on my face on the other side 😂. I am with you as always. R ❤️
Our CSAT is female, but she’s… younger and more optimistic than me. I appreciate that about her because it balances out my post DDay cynicism, but it can make her seem a bit naive about things like this.
You know, I could have shut the incident down in a heartbeat with a well chosen comment to her, but I just kept waiting for Handsome to do something… anything… to end it. That’s actually the source of our feud over it. He says I’m upset because he didn’t follow whatever script I had in my head for what he should do (that he didn’t do the precisely right thing) but I’m actually upset because he didn’t do ANYTHING.
He’s going to have another opportunity at some point to do the right thing. We’ll see if he has learned anything from this. ❤️
I know my friend, i knew exactly what you wanted, hopefully this will be a lesson learned. ❤️
Right from your first sentence, I was thinking it was odd that your CSAT spent much time at all discussing the OW’s boundaries or lack of in your session. I guess that was supposed to be more for Handsome’s benefit and understanding than your own. As much as I would highly recommend our therapist to anyone, there were several occasions when I had my eye on the clock watching the wasted minutes tick by wondering why we were discussing what we were.
I agree with you that Julie knew exactly who you were – Handsome’s wife. And even if there was a niggle of doubt in her mind as to your position in his life, her behaviour would have been inappropriate and disrespectful to any woman who was there with him, regardless of the relationship. I think not only did she not care what she was stirring up, she got a little thrill from doing it. It really is a sad, twisted game.
You made me chuckle Cynthia. 😂 I’ve had a few of those “why are we talking about this” moments. In retrospect, I think her point to Handsome was indeed that he needs to be mindful that not everyone else has good or appropriate boundaries and that he must be able to recognize that and exercise his own boundaries regardless. Fine, but she started by giving Julie the benefit of the doubt that she must not have known who I was. I think those of us here with a bit more life experience realize that’s just not the case. Sadly.
XO
YES! This is a topic that really strikes a chord with me. I’ve heard some argue that the OW owes the betrayed spouse nothing and I couldn’t disagree more. My husband made vows to me, which he broke. He has to own 100% of his actions. The OW didn’t know me personally but she knew my husband had a wife and kids. Not knowing me personally didn’t minimize her obligation to not intentionally try to hurt me. I’ve spent plenty (way too much) time trying to understand her actions. I can imagine that she’s in some way broken to have done the things she did (parking lot sex in broad daylight on lunch breaks… gross). But, I argue that she still knew she was doing things that would be damaging to me and potentially to my children. And so I feel she is 100% responsible too for the things she did.
I struggle with the whole “I told myself if you never found out it wouldn’t hurt you” line.
It’s just such bs to me. My argument is that if you steal something and don’t get caught, it doesn’t make it any less stolen.
I suppose not knowing a person may make it easier for someone doing this kind of stuff to justify their actions in their own mind. That’s not how I’m wired but is obvious there are a lot of people out there who are.
“…if you steal something and don’t get caught, it doesn’t make it any less stolen.” So very true. I’ve used an example with my husband that seemed to resonate: Imagine that one day I am at work miles and miles from wherever he is. Imagine that I’m talking with my colleagues about various personal issues and that I start mocking Handsome and disparaging his personality/ work ethic/ parenting/ looks/ whatever. Have I disrespected him? Even if he isn’t around to hear it and may never know? OF COURSE I HAVE!!! The same is true of him bashing me to the ho bags to justify his behavior and the same is equally true of the ho bags utter disregard for me and my family. Integrity and honor is evidenced by how you behave when there is no one looking. My husband and the OW were sorely lacking both character traits.
xo