Let me assure you that nothing bad has happened (recently, that is), I haven’t lost my marbles, and I’m not out for pity or sympathy. I use this blog to share my experiences and feelings and there are some very specific ones that, to date, I’ve been too embarrassed/ hesitant/ insecure/shy/reluctant/ whatever to share.
I don’t want to carry this baggage into 2019, however, so I’m going to pound them out over the course of this week by posting one per day. I just need to get them off my chest and toss them out into the ether and move into the New Year without the burden of these thoughts. If something resonates, great, or maybe it will just be me cleansing my soul, but that’s fine too.
Today’s topic: sex with my sex addict husband.
My experience, like many on this journey, is likely really different from what others experienced. I can only speak to us. You might think that sex with a guy who had numerous sex partners, including pros, and who watched more than his fair share of porn, would be awesome. He must have learned something, right?? In our relationship, throughout the entirety of our relationship, it was rarely so. Were we having sex? Yes, but not usually a lot. Was it fulfilling? Not usually for me.
Pre-DDay, Handsome was quite selfish in bed. I see this very clearly now. I didn’t then. I was always just so happy for the attention when it came my way. In bed, I fell into that trap where I was so focused on trying to please him that I became irrelevant to the process. Foreplay was minimal, intercourse was usually brief, and when he was done, it was over for both of us. By DDay #1, I couldn’t even remember the last time he brought me to orgasm, but it would not be an exaggeration to say that it had probably been a few years. I always told myself that our relationship was about more than sex and that I could deal with barely adequate sex since I had an otherwise great husband [insert laugh track here…]. It makes sense, and it’s foolish, all at the same time.
Two other factors certainly didn’t help: his ED and his compulsive masturbation. It’s hard to have anything left in the tank if you’re engaging in daily solo play and you have ED. I can honestly say that I never, ever did anything other than try to be supportive about the ED. I told him often that it wasn’t a big deal and not to worry. I am, however, really f-ing resentful that he could somehow manage to get it up for the harem of whores while he couldn’t manage that most times with me. That simply sucks. He claims that he very often couldn’t perform with them either and that that’s why he preferred oral to straight sex, but I doubt that’s the case. He wasn’t spending $200-300 a pop for blow jobs. If he was, he’s a bigger fool than I think.
There was a third factor too: his drinking. On a daily basis I’m sure it didn’t help his ED, but it otherwise didn’t come into play. Date nights or special occasions where he drank a lot were a different story. I detest sloppy drunks. I’ve felt that way ever since college. I find that slobbery, stupid drunk stage just intolerable. Handsome seemed to think it was cute (not!). On nights when most couples would have carried the fun of the evening into bed, I’d spend an extra 3-4 minutes in the bathroom until he fell asleep/ passed out. I’m incredibly happy that I haven’t had to deal with that dynamic for a year.
Finally, even when we were having sex he often seemed disconnected. He was there physically, but his mind was clearly elsewhere. Was he fantasizing about someone else? Maybe. Probably. I’ll never know for sure. I just know that he wasn’t connecting in any real way with me most of the time.
Why do I struggle mightily with this? None of his APs or paid pros are anything like me. He deliberately chose them and lusted after them and somehow managed to perform with them. I’m sad, and yes resentful/ bitter/ angry/ hurt, that he could perform with them and not me. I feel like I played the chump for years, trying to be a good wife, putting up with a crappy vanilla sex life, all the while he’s getting his rocks off unbeknownst to me. (As an illustration of how clueless I was, about a month before DDay #1 I started to research doctors that might be able to help him with what I guessed was low-T or general mid-life funk, because that’s the level our sex life was at. He had four (4!!) active affair partners at the time.)
With some caveats that I’ll address in another post this week, the good news is that things are generally better post-DDay. It took a few months, but the selfishness is mostly gone. He is more connected and attentive. He has remembered that I have a clitoris and that it can be fun to pay attention to it. He’s not drinking, so that eliminates the sloppy drunk issue. Sex is no longer just about him. I occasionally wonder if he’s really present with me or if he’s elsewhere in his mind, but I’m guessing that’s normal and just another gift of the betrayal trauma (the gift that keeps on giving).
Tomorrow: A Week of Brutal Honesty – #2 – Regrets – I have a few (but maybe not what you think)
I love your style of writing. Do you think that some of his behaviour was sexual i security, made worse by the ED? What comes across from your writing is that you are getting stronger every day.
Moisy
Thanks for the kind words. 🙂 I do think that some of the behavior was related to insecurity. Handsome agrees, but I struggle with that. I wrote way back in the beginning:
I never got upset in front of him or did anything other than try to reassure him I loved him and it would be okay. But a cycle started. We’d try to have sex, it wouldn’t work, and so rather than trying and failing he just about quit trying. In retrospect, I thought I was handling that okay by stepping back and giving him some space to work through that frustration. I didn’t think I should try to force the issue (he already had a Viagra prescription that barely helped). I was actually proud of how understanding I thought I was being. Whereas I saw “helpful, supportive space” I think he saw “disinterest” and “she must not care.”
I have trouble reconciling that insecure husband with a guy secure enough to book hotel rooms with whores or to waltz into a massage parlor or an escort’s apartment and expect to get laid. To me, that requires a confidence that just doesn’t square with the ED-related insecurity he says he had. I’m not sure if I can’t get my head around this because I’m a girl (why wouldn’t it be less risky to fail to perform in front of me than someone you just spent a few hundred bucks on?) or because I’m not an addict.
Hard to say.
xo
I think it was because he didn’t care about them, there were no emotions; and I know this is hard to believe ( after all if someone loves you how could they do that to you?) because he had emotions for you it mattered. With them it didn’t! It sounds a bit like Rich, he thought I was too good for him, so he went off with someone beneath him. He told me he couldn’t get an erection with her, then months later I found out he did. I still don’t believe he didn’t get erect, but as the years have gone by, and I am understanding most of it ( I don’t think you ever understand it all) I think not being able to maintain it was probably true.
It’s so noticeable that you get stronger every day, the only way is forward and my advice would be don’t worry about where it takes you.
Moisy
Thanks Moisy. It certainly is hard to understand. Failing to perform with me was truly not a big deal (other than the times he moped about it and made it into one), so why that didn’t feel “safe” is just weird (to me, the non-addict). Setting himself up to fail to perform with all these other women just seems like an invitation for humiliation. Or pain shopping.
❤️
Maybe, maybe in his head these ow wanted him, praised him, but being an addict he chose to ignore why. You remind me of me, the way you fight it all the way. You can do this, you will survive and get stronger from it.
Moisy xox
Yes yes yes. All the same experiences for me (except the drinking). He was so disconnected that after we had sex I wondered if we even just had sex. it was so bizarre but I would suspect the OW also felt that way with him. He was just going from one fantasy to another, and couldn’t actually have sex with anyone unless he was “somewhere else’ in his mind.
I was just thinking (ok over thinking) this morning that he specifically avoided sex with me because he had plans to act out with them. i.e. – if he was aroused, I would go in for the kill but he would either reject me or leave the room right in the middle of what I was doing without a word. It was so hurtful and confusing at the time, but now it’s just hurtful and angering. He also had ED at times (and he had fits of anger and rage about it) and I too was supportive in making sure he went to the Dr. to get his T checked, and said it didn’t matter and what we had was so much deeper. Even at the time I knew something was off and felt pathetic at getting so excited with the small crumbs he gave, but now I just feel anger and resentment.
And what’s even more angering to me is that he went to get the blood work to get his T checked. He even started taking a herb (secretly) called Horny Goat Weed…when I found it he said he was taking it for me. Nope, he was taking it so he could jerk off, get oral and fuck other women…and maybe fit me in there once in a while too to keep any feelings of neglect at bay.
What a joke. What a waste of time. What a mind fuck.
This sent shivers up my spine: He was so disconnected that after we had sex I wondered if we even just had sex. Yes. I have been there. And yes, it is a positively bizarre experience. (I can’t count how many times I laid there and wondered “Wait, what just happened?” And sometimes he would say “Why don’t we do that more often?” and I’d think to myself “why bother?”) I also suspect that the OWs felt the same way with him. The Whore told her husband that the sex was terrible and that’s why all she did was text and sext with him for the last 18 months or so preceding DDay. It’s one thing she said that I believe. The same seems to have happened with his anonymous internet skank. Two fuck dates, and then nothing but sexting. I think the idea of him was better than he was in reality for them. (It’s ironic that goes both ways, isn’t it?)
And yes, I completely agree that it’s all a joke, a waste of time, and a mind fuck.
I hope you are hanging in there with everything going on with your family. Stay strong and know I’m thinking about you.
xo
Everything I’ve read and what Mr. P has said is that the high was the sexting, the build up of the planning, and the risk. NOT the sex – the in-person interactions were the awkward/disappointing part and felt like what a hangover would.
I still don’t understand it; how he could reject “the only woman he’s ever loved” to have sex with women he wasn’t even attracted to and didn’t even like, but I guess alcoholics/drug addicts can love and still steal from their loved ones to get their high. It’s heartbreaking, but I’m trying to stay objective in believing what I read – it’s an addiction just like paint thinner is to an alcoholic.
I’m glad your sex is more connected and I’m definitely happy for you that the desire to please is mutual. I also have the same now from him, but if I’m honest I’m having a hard time staying present and connected. I feel like I’m faking it a bit (the connection that is).
I feel robbed, you know? Robbed of love, attention and sex – and he gave what was mine to others. It still hurts.
I also have a hard time staying present and connected. It takes a ton of effort which, in turn, takes a good bunch of the pleasure out of it. It’s exhausting not to think of him doing the things he does to me to these skanks and vice versa. I’m going to address this a bit (in a kind of round-about way) later in the week because it is one of those pesky concepts I just can’t rid myself of no matter how hard I try.
And sadly SSA, we don’t just feel robbed. We WERE robbed. They gave away that which was not really theirs to give and yet now we have to deal with the fallout of their profoundly selfish choices. Heck yeah it hurts.
🙁
I read these things and shake my head in confusion. This is different than my experience…but now? Now I wonder if I’m kidding myself.
What man doesn’t think he’s good in the sack? What man admits he needs help?
I loved my sex life with my xp. And sex with my ex-wife was better after the divorce.
I wonder, in my vacuum, if it was real or just my imagination.
You probably aren’t kidding yourself. Your reality is likely simply different.
This is one of those areas where (I think) the addict experience often diverges from the standard infidelity experience. Even at that, some partners report awesome sex with their SA partner. That just hasn’t been my experience. I very clearly recall a few days after our DDay #2, when the addiction came to obvious light, and Handsome said something to me about how he has always had a really high sex drive and blah blah blah. I heard those words and my brain just about exploded. It took me a second to realize that he was talking about himself and that he was absolutely delusional. I’ve been with a reliable sampling – is that diplomatic? – of guys that I would say have a normal sex drive and guys who have had high sex drives. My husband’s drive, at least as it pertained to me, was nowhere near either of those measures. Again, months earlier I was doctor shopping to try to find a way to get him to have any drive at all.
Post DDay, I’ve come to learn that Handsome can be good in bed. He just wasn’t, for a very long time. I don’t think that he was capable of having shared intimacy when he was in the midst of his acting out. Sex was about the release, the hit of feeling good. It’s why I was largely irrelevant.
Irrelevant or redundant?
Ha! Fair point.
What you are sharing about sex with a sex addict is common. I have been in a support group for 3 years and the second most common complaint and, a very close second to complaints of addicts acting out, is the lack of sex or poor quality of sex. We’ve had entire meetings on this subject. Recently, I heard Carol the Coach say in one of her podcasts for partners that if your sex addict partner wants to have sex with you, consider yourself lucky because many do not. This is so confusing. Also, I would tend to believe your husband when he says he had performance problems with others. I have heard that before, too. It makes no sense to a normal person to seek out sex with randos when you have problems in that area but sex addicts aren’t normal.
“Consider yourself lucky”?
What an odd phrase. Is that what she said or is that paraphrasing?
It certainly doesn’t make sense but, as you always remind me, sex addicts aren’t normal. None of it makes sense. It’s like he was chasing the “magic vajeen” that would solve all of his problems. He certainly never found it.
I had no idea how common an issue this was. And yes, it’s so very confusing.
❤️
blackacre02631 & Spouse of a Sex Addict, my experience is almost exactly like yours.
It took me a very long time to focus on the ‘intimacy disorder’ part of the addiction because the impact of the ‘sex addiction/horrific acts’ part were earth shattering, traumatic and revolting! This impact dominated. Only now, six years later, after trying to reconcile for the last year, has the ‘intimacy disorder’ part come into focus. I have felt so utterly stupid for not fully understanding that it is the fulcrum!
These men in our lives are terrified little boys inside. They are frightened of intimacy, that is why they cannot perform with us, their significant others. Anonymous, no strings attached sex is not threatening to them. We are! As they step closer to us, adrenalin begins to pump. They percieve us as dangerous to them. A threat to their very lives.
Without facing this and their fear, they will will not recover snd our marriages will continue to be agony.
*FULCRUM
-A thing that plays a central or essential role in an activity, event, or situation.
*Synonyms
-blueprint
-clue
-code
-core
-guide
-indicator
-means
-passport
-password
-sign
-ticket
-brand
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-crux
-cue
-earmark
-explanation
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-translation
It took me almost five years to even contemplate reconciliation. I decided to stay in the ‘marriage’ to keep my family unit together. We hadn’t had sex for eons and I was so utterly repulsed that I believed I would never, ever have sex again, so it made no difference to me in that way.
I was in, what I call now, my bubble of shock. It was horrific and traumatic but safe too. It was a wonderful buffer. After twenty years of suffering in the relationship, ‘boxing with shadows’ believing that there was something seriously wrong with me, it was incredibly freeing to finally get the truth. In that elongated ‘moment’ of hearing the truth, the ‘cloak’ of self-hatred that had engulfed me for so long, slipped off of my shoulders and disappeared into the ether.
As I said, after almost five years, I began to contemplate reconciliation… within weeks of this, my husband who had been doing everything humanly possible to win me back, began to backpeddle! WTAF?!
He was, I believe, sober. (How do we ever know this for sure?) He was getting what he had worked so incredibly hard for but he retreating. This last year has been excruciating! I would not have believed I could suffer much more than I have, but believe me, I HAVE!
It took this agony to bring me to the point of self love, where I would no longer accept living in an empty relationship. For the first time in my life I was willing to lose everything in order to honour myself.
Finally, the concept of intimacy disorder and attachment wounding have come to the fore. My husband has chosen to address his intimacy disorder and his attachment wounding and I am addressing my attachment wounding. We are doing all of this through an incredible online course called ‘LoveAtFirstFight’ 💜
Jangled, I give you credit. I couldn’t/ can’t stay in addiction purgatory for 5 years. I just don’t think that I could hang in that long hoping for reconciliation. My husband either needs to start getting his act together or we’ll be separating (not necessarily divorcing, but separating).
I agree with you that the intimacy disorder is at the heart of the issue. (It’s why I’m a Minwalla fan-girl.) We are dangerous to them. We might leave them, be disappointed in them, hurt them. They can’t cope. I see that with my husband. My husband’s flight instincts are incredibly strong. Our CSAT is surprised that he hasn’t just run away from all of this, because that has always been his MO. I’m certainly glad that he has stayed, but there’s still a ton of room for improvement.
I’ll have to check out “LoveAtFirstFight”! Thanks for that resource!
❤️
Hey blackacre0263, he was in active recovery the whole time or I couldn’t have stayed. Xx
He was in active recovery the whole time and still is. I couldn’t have stayed otherwise. Xx
I hear you… it’s just incredibly frustrating when that doesn’t seem to be enough. It’s great, of course, that they aren’t acting out/ screwing other women, but I feel like that’s a really low bar for my relationship satisfaction or happiness. Handsome knows that there is no room for “slips” (I hate that term) in his recovery. He has been sober for over a year and I know that hasn’t been easy. I just need more than that. I need the empathy, intimacy and truth, etc. etc. If I’m really honest, I need all of that soon or I’m going to start to check out. At first I thought it was detachment, but I’m concerned that it is growing into apathy.
Yes, SO utterly enraging and frustrating! I also hate the sanitised terms used. Slip, huh! Acting out, WTAFEVER!
I do have not and do not ever celebrate sobriety dates. I cannot celebrate something that is normal and expected in a marriage.
Needing empathy and intimacy is exactly why my last year has been excruciating. In fighting like a wildcat and being labelled extreme and hysterical, I eventually reached the realisation that I would rather leave and be alone than live with the disconnect and pain.
I agree with you on sobriety dates. I do mention Handsome’s in my writing, but mostly to put things in perspective for the reader. Between us, he’s fully aware that he’s not getting any kudos from me for actually abiding by his wedding vows. I understand why they make a big deal out of it at SA, but I also find it really infuriating. (“Yay, you didn’t cheat on your wife this year! Woo hoo! You’re so BRAVE and STRONG!” bleh 🤮… you’ve got to be kidding me…)
What the addict enjoys is not the sex but the high they get from sexually humiliating another. They don’t have sex with us because they can only get off by humiliation and they don’t want to humiliate US. The key to ending this vicious cycle is to find out how the addict was sexually humiliated themselves and why they are replaying that incident over and over.
It also took me a long time to get it through my head that it had nothing to do with me or how attractive I was. It helped to find the hookers’ mug shots. Ugh, Wow. Were they UGLY.
And I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that I doubt Handsome actually has ED at all. You just aren’t a prostitute.
The ED comment has occurred to me too over time, but I think it’s highly likely that the compulsive masturbation and porn probably “caused” his ED a decade or two ago (or caused him to think he had ED) and that he has since just aged into it being a reality. That sucks for him but, like so much of this, he brought it on himself.
I’m less certain what role humiliation played/plays for Handsome. From what I can read of his texts and sexts, he wasn’t humiliating them. He was generally very solicitous because he was trying to keep them on the hook. He wasn’t screwing them in cars. He paid for decent hotel rooms. He wasn’t coming on their faces or obviously degrading them (not in any way that they realized, at least). The only person getting humiliated was him. The pros? If he paid $300 for straight sex and couldn’t perform, that was probably the highlight of their day. I’m sure that humiliation is a driver for some guys, I just don’t see that with my husband.
I LOVE that you were able to dig up the hookers’ mug shots. They aren’t so hot in the daylight, are they? lol
❤️
The humiliation factor is more “you have to have sex for money, what a loser you are” and exists in their minds rather than being acted out visibly. Any outward show of humiliation would be embarrassing for them. It’s the power inequality that they crave. To the prostitute they appear normal. And of course they’ll be charming. They don’t want to get turned down for sex. Handsome has the added boost of being in law enforcement to give him the upper hand in the power department which he likely enjoys.
For sure… his profession dovetails perfectly into his addiction. And, sadly, infidelity is practically an epidemic in both state and federal law enforcement agencies. It’s almost normalized. He could hide in plain sight which certainly fed his acting out and facilitated his long power trip. I do wish I could have been there to see him get confronted by the Whore’s husband. I understand (and believe) that he acted like a cocky arrogant asshat until he realized that the guy had found me and that he planned to spill the beans. I would imagine that the immediate fall off of that pedestal was pretty spectacular.
For Mr. Perfect it was not about humiliation, it was about the power he had over all of the women – them waiting breathlessly for texts/sexts, the women anxiously waiting to hear from him on when they could meet, him asking and them immediately sending pics and videos.
And he would purposely make them wait for his responses.
Mr. Perfect is a good lover and always has been with me as well (when we had sex). No special moves but he definitely loves/d pleasing and got plenty of dick comments and attention. I actually and truly believe he thought the only lovable/good part about him was his dick (admittedly it’s a great dick).
I’m not totally daft to the pleasure aspect of having an orgasm – he has never admitted that it felt good but he has also never admitted that the orgasms with them felt like a nail rammed up his dick.
This was not about orgasms though, because he could have had plenty of them with me. For him it was about control of them, and also control of intimacy with me so there was no chance of me hurting him.
Fear and control – that was my Mr. P to a T.
“This was not about orgasms though, because he could have had plenty of them with me.” – Yep. Exactly. I don’t see that Handsome tried to control these women (they were all pretty much way too batshit crazy for that), but I absolutely believe that he tried to control his life by using them to fill the void in his soul. He was, and I think still is, terrified to face whatever caused that void in the first place.
xo
Do you have any idea as to the why?
Why he has the void in himself? He’s the child of two alcoholics. I think they loved Handsome and his brother in their own way but they were two people who probably shouldn’t have had kids. Certainly not together. I think Handsome spent his childhood trying to please two absent (physically and emotionally), selfish, unpleasable people. Handsome says he always felt closer to his dad, and his dad is about the least self-aware, least empathetic human I’ve ever met. (Handsome looks positively enlightened by comparison which is truly saying something.) I feel like Handsome has been on a lifelong quest for love and safety and approval and that even when he finds it he doesn’t trust it and starts acting out again to get the hits and fill that void, not realizing that it will never be filled that way.
I’ve developed a good bit of resentment towards my in-laws over the last year. (My MIL died a few years ago, but my FIL is still around and kicking.) At some point my husband was just a shy and insecure little boy trying to get some attention and affection from his parents and they royally screwed him up. It makes me positively ill to see how Handsome still panders to his dad for scraps of approval and affection. It’s sad to watch.
Agree that SA is an intimacy disorder. It was very hard for me to understand that, but once I did, some of my confusion lessened.
RC, I may not be quoting Carol the Coach exactly, but that’s close to what she said. As I have learned these last three years it’s a fairly common experience. It seems especially true for SAs who were heavily into porn. Our CSAT told me that performance problems with the acting out partners are common. He gave a lengthy explanation as to why that is which I don’t remember but it involved anxiety.
I love this thread! And just briefly, my non SA, but strongly likely love addict, mirrored many of these things. Definitely said the sex itself with Leanne was vanilla, at best. The anticipation was the high. The actual hookups mostly deeply disappointing. Makes me question what it must be like now, pretty much living with Trinket. Food for thought… thanks everyone who has contributed here xxx
I have to admit that I just had a giggle thinking that the best revenge on Rog would be for him to spend the remainder of his years having boring, bad, vanilla sex. 🤣
It is amazing that as different as many of our situations are, there are often these big areas of commonality as well. No wonder we all seem to get one another. ❤️
Hahaha!
Sadly, he targeted s former betrayed. Trinket’s dead husband was a nasty, serisl cheat. Rog shared that she danced pretty! Tried all the kinky, nasty sex to try to keep him happy. And poor widdle Trinket was a bit broken and fragile after such degradation. Hmmm. Yeah. Right. Sure. Perfect target!
Well, I’m sorry to have missed reading your week of brutal honesty posts at the time you wrote them. The benefit for me in reading this post now is all the comments. At this point, there really isn’t much for me to add. And as awful as it all is, I do find some comfort in knowing that you all understand the complete brokenness of sexual intimacy with a sex addict. Thank you for sharing your heart so openly. It helps to heal mine too. xo
Hi Cynthia. I hope you had a beautiful Christmas. 🎄
The comments each day throughout the week were just amazing. I am always awestruck when I share something thinking I must be the only one thinking/ feeling/ experiencing that thing, only to have a number of others say “hey, me too” or “I can relate because…”. The support here is incredible.
❤️