Been gone for a bit. We just wrapped up the second of two long family weekends away. We had a decent time in NYC (Handsome was highly agitated all weekend, but the kids and my mom were good fun), and we just got back from the Breeder’s Cup in Louisville. That was an awesome trip. Beautiful horses, great racing, fancy hats, Derby pie, and bourbon. Lots of bourbon. What could be better?
Before we left for NYC, our CSAT said that she thought a formal therapeutic disclosure would be a good idea for us. She has been able to see what Handsome has voluntarily disclosed versus that which I’ve had to investigate on my own. She has observed his responses to various questions about his acting out and, in particular, how certain answers just don’t make sense or seem a bit lacking. She also sees the frustration this causes me.
If you’ve been on this roller coaster with me for a while, you recall that our first DDay was December 9th last year. At that time Handsome disclosed parts of his affair with the Whore. He minimized the heck out of it, but most of the truth trickled out about their involvement once I got a chance to go through her burner phone. On February 26th, we spent hours doing what was supposed to be a full disclosure on our own. Within days it became apparent that 90% of what I had been told was absolute BS. March 3rd became our DDay #2 when I learned about his numerous other affairs and acting out behaviors. It’s also when it became obvious that Handsome has serious issues with compulsive sexual behavior. I knew then, even before he was formally diagnosed, that Handsome is a sex addict. Since that day there have been smaller disclosures, most of which I would consider to be “filler” around the broader stories of his acting out. Many of those little disclosures have been during our weekly check-ins in response to the question in his check-in format from Dr. M regarding a lie or secret he is keeping. I do believe that he has told me the majority of what he did. I also believe, however, that there are certain things that he has decided he should keep secret. Some of those things have become obvious in our therapy. I, on the other hand, believe that the absolute least he can do for me is tell me the full truth. I have always said that I don’t need the color of someone’s lingerie or who was on top, but I do need to know the totality of what I am supposed to be forgiving him for.
The CSAT sent us a template for the format of the disclosure and, frankly, I find all of the limitations “for the protection of the betrayed spouse” to be utter BS. To me, if it is supposed to be a disclosure it had better be exhaustive and thorough. A therapist or his SA folks should not know things that I do not. If he knows something and fails to disclose it to me, it’s a secret and that’s a problem for me. I really wish that everyone else, including Handsome, would accept the fact that I’m an adult and quit perpetuating secrets under the guise of “protecting” me. I find it insulting, patriarchal, offensive, and unnecessary.
I raised that point with the CSAT and also said that if all Handsome intended to do was to waltz in and tell me only what he has told me thus far, we should just skip it. I’m not going to put myself through torture so he can check off a box to say he accomplished something. If I’m going to go through this, it had better have a point. She informed me today after meeting with him privately that “there is new information that will be coming forward.” Lovely. So much for telling me 300+ times that he has told me everything. It’s a good thing I never bought that completely. (Does anyone wonder why we betrayed spouses develop trust issues that we never had before after all of this??)
Despite this development, I know that I’ve made personal progress over the last 11 months because I’m not in tears or a basket case over whatever might be forthcoming. I have assumed that he slept with everyone he says he didn’t, and then some. I have assumed that he engaged in other acting out behaviors that have yet to be disclosed. In short, I’ve already steeled myself against the worst of the possibilities. That’s not to say that the new disclosures won’t hurt me. They just won’t destroy me. He did that already, but I feel as though I’m doing a commendable job rebuilding myself in this new epoch.
Our CSAT wanted to get the disclosure scheduled and completed in December, but the holidays are upon us and I refuse to destroy another Christmas and New Year’s with new disclosures of Handsome’s acting out. I would love to start 2019 fresh, but I’m not willing to sabotage my 2018 holidays to do so. He can toil away at his part in this disclosure till the new year rolls around. Let it weigh on him for the next few weeks, not me.
Oh honey my heart sinks for you 🙁 I am 100% sure I don’t know everything either. How can someone who’s been betrayed so painfully accept a life we have no idea we have lived/are living? Is that possible?
How can we be expected to put the flashlight away in the dark forest when there are still monsters hiding on the path reading and waiting to attack us?
As much as I would like to think Mr. P and Handsome aren’t disclosing the full truth because they want to protect us/don’t want to hurt us, I don’t believe that’s the reason (because they’ve never done that in the past). These guys are so full of shame and SELF preservation and also have huge abandonment issues – they are protecting themselves. I can empathize with how hard the words are to say, but it causes a lot of resentment knowing it was WAY easier to fuck someone else than say the words they fucked someone else. I get it, but I don’t get it.
You are strong and have made incredible progress and you will fight and claw through this because you’re a survivor. If your nails become dull, we are fighting along side you and have plenty for you here.
I’m so sorry, please let us know how you’re doing xo
Hey there SSA. You articulate so many things that I ponder daily. Why is it easier to fuck someone than to tell me he did it? How can he say that he truly loves me if, at the end of the day, his comfort/ fear matters more to him than my health and well being? And sadly, I agree that the reason they withhold things has nothing to do with protecting us (and I note that Handsome hasn’t mentioned that in ages). It’s a twisted combination of shame, discomfort, fear, paranoia and other messy stuff, but it’s THEIR stuff. And all of it takes priority over us.
And like so many of us, while I’m certainly not going to be happy about whatever he did, I’m infinitely more upset about the ongoing and persistent lies (whether by omission, which is Handsome’s forte, or overtly lying). How does he look me in the eye every single day, claim to be going “all in” on healing us, insist passionately that he has told me everything, when it’s simply not true? I’m so fed up because at this point it just seems mean and sadistic.
I get that he has almost a year of sobriety from his acting out and that he’s doing a lot of other good things. Great. It just makes it harder to reconcile how he gets out of bed every day and continues to perpetuate lies.
Absolutely agree with everything you’ve said. There’s a step in the 12 step program that speaks about atonement and admitting wrongdoing to those who have been victimized – except if more pain and damage will be caused to the victim (or something along those lines). I believe this is the SA’s rationalization into the non full disclosure loophole. BUT, if I’ve requested that he tells me EVERYTHING but he doesn’t, that’s not recovery to me. That’s still lying, hiding, keeping shame alive and has all of the same shit feelings and mental components as when they were acting out.
How is lying and/or omitting details of the very thing they’re wanting us to forgive and accept considered being in recovery? To me, it’s not.
Hang in there BW, I’m right here beside you ❤️
Exactly. Maybe I’m misunderstanding something about the recovery process (having never been in it myself), but if you haven’t fully admitted what you are in recovery for/ from, then how can it possibly work? How can you recover when you are either in denial or lying?
I really appreciate your support. I was catching up on posts last night and saw you were going through a tough time while I was away. I hope things are improving. I’m sorry you are on the roller coaster too.
xo ❤️
Agree, there is no recovery if one is still lying and hiding.
I’ve been much better, until I’m not. You know how it is 🙁 thank you for checking in <3
*ready (not reading – monsters don’t know how to read 😉 )
One of my biggest struggles for the longest time post d-day had to do with me somehow thinking my husband was normal. So all the time I was questioning how could he do what he did, I was really thinking in terms of how could a normal person do what he did? Mind you, I didn’t use the word “normal” but my brain still thought of him as normal because for decades I had thought he was normal. That was my template for him. Yes,he had his quirks, but basically, I saw him as “normal.” Once I knew he was SA, at some subconscious level I still kept thinking he was a normal person who had inexplicably done horrible things. That resulted in me trying to interact with him as if he were normal and ask questions like how could you fuck a street whore the afternoon of NYE and go out with me that night celebrating and partying and act completely calm and cool? Of course when all he could do was look scared and ashamed in response, I got furious. Thinking he was normal, caused me to act crazy and caused me to interact with him in some very odd ways. In retrospect, I was only trying to get my own needs met by understanding, but some of the conversations were really bizarre when I look back on them. I honestly think most SAs don’t really know why they did what they did until they get some solid recovery behind them and work very hard in therapy. Yes, they will make up answers like, “I was lonely,” “I never got what I needed as a kid,” “I was stressed at work.” blah, blah, blah. Or worse, blame the partner, “You were always so busy.” “I thought you didn’t love me. anymore.” more blah, blah, blah.
SAs are very disordered persons. They have to be to do what they did. What they did makes no sense. Once that really sunk in for me (and it took some time), the dynamic with my husband changed. I really got it that all I could do was work on myself to become my best self, or at least a better me. I hope with all my heart that he gets better, but either way, I’m committed to becoming a better person.
The staggered disclosures are all too common. I, too, turned down a third formal disclosure because I saw no point in it. Instead, I agreed with the CSAT to do six month polygraphs. I honestly don’t even know if I’ll go through with that, but for now, it’s the plan. The CSAT wanted it for himself, because SAs lie to their therapists. (Again, not normal. What normal person pays a therapist and then lies to them? What would be the point?) I don’t spend anytime now wondering if my husband is sober or working his program or questioning him about it. Right now, we are getting along great and working on developing real closeness. I feel like I’m just getting to know him. It’s a little weird because I do know him as far as what he likes to eat, what entertainment he likes, his favorite books, etc. etc. but I don’t know the inner person. I listen attentively when he does open up to me. However, my first priority is me. I use our couples therapy to work on myself to become a better communicator and to increase my self-esteem. One habit we have started is to read the daily meditation in his SA meditation book aloud every morning and then we pray together. I started this because I wanted to increase my spirituality and my husband wanted to be a part of it. The meditations are for SAs, but can apply to anyone. If for some reason we have to miss a morning, we both really regret it.
You are working on yourself, I can tell. You’ve got this, but it won’t feel like it for awhile. Hang in there. xoxo
Thanks Maggie. I’m posting today about some follow up, but I agree with everything you’ve said. I agree that my husband isn’t “normal” as others would understand it and I think (hope) I’m getting better at dealing with him on that basis. I still feel as though he thinks of himself as a normal person who did awful things. My sense is that until he gets far enough along in his recovery where he develops the self awareness to say “nope, i’m not like everyone else and because of that I need to be more mindful and work deliberately harder on x, y, and z” it’s going to be a struggle. For example, stopping the sexual acting out isn’t enough if he’s still lying daily. Normal people don’t lie constantly. He does, even about BS trivial things. He has to get a grip on that.
I’m heartened to hear you think I’ve got a grip on this. Some days I think I do. Other days I’m not so sure.
xo
Maggie, this response helped me and will help so many others to remember we are NOT dealing with normal thinking men. I really needed to read this, thank you and I hope you’re doing well xo
Hello,
My wife showed me your blog and after reading, I had to respond as I am the Handsome of my relationship. I cheated on my wife with hookers and went to massage parlors. I’ll skip a HUGE piece in the middle to get to the point: Reading about how you say Handsome is acting reminds me a lot of myself and how I acted. Subtle differences, but for the most part, very close. Here’s my reveal: I was raped by my teacher and her friend at age 7. The shame and loathing of myself followed me the rest of my life. I’m no expert (I don’t believe there ARE any experts- especially CSAT’s), but if I were a betting man I would say a safe bet is that Handsome has something he’s hiding or doesn’t even remember (I had no recollection of my abuse, so maybe he doesn’t either). My belief is somewhere in his childhood is a traumatic experience involving a woman. What he is doing now (in my opinion) is hiding behind the limits the CSAT is setting, which is absolutely ridiculous. You are entitled to talk about what you want to talk about however long you want to talk about it. The shame and guilt in Handsome is most likely unbearable and he has zero idea how to deal with those feelings. I didn’t- Only very recently did I even get a grasp on it. He needs to know he cannot hide from what he has done. You should ask what you want to ask whenever the Hell you please. Pushing him is the only way. Coddling will only give him a means of retreat from having to face reality. It’s a shit sandwich, and he is going to have to take a bite. I don’t mean push without limits. If he really does want to change, he needs to know that he must talk about what he’s done, take ownership about what he’s done, and learn from it and move on. It doesn’t mean forgive himself and forget, it means realize he is human and he made a horrible mistake, but that is not going to define him. He can change and grow and be a better man than he was the day before. Another piece of advice I would give is drop the CSAT like the albatross around the mariners neck and save the money. Find a hypnotist and go there instead. In under 6 sessions he taught me how to take control of my inner mind and regain some dignity.
Now, this is just my opinion of the situation, and should be taken with a grain of salt. But I think I’m right.
My wife and I also have a blog that we share our experiences with. If you care to read it, it’s here: https://www.formersexaddict.com/
Whether you read it or not, I wish you peace and contentment. It’s a difficult thing you are going through, but you can do it!
Jim
Hi Jim. I thank you for reaching out. I actually subscribe to your blog and some of your postings have been really very helpful to me. (And I learned more about mongering from your wife than from any other source. She’s a font of really good information.)
I think my husband’s trauma stems from witnessing his (high functioning) alcoholic mother’s degrading, humiliating treatment of his father (also a high functioning alcoholic carved straight from The Great Santini school of parenting), rather than anything directly perpetrated on him. But who knows??? His childhood – in an outwardly stable and secure family – was seriously screwed up. He thought it was normal. In fact, he thought it was normal until all of this hit the fan and he started to have to answer questions about it and finally realized that it wasn’t all roses and that most kids didn’t experience childhood the way that he did.
You say, accurately: “If he really does want to change, he needs to know that he must talk about what he’s done, take ownership about what he’s done, and learn from it and move on.” I agree. I think Handsome agrees. Since our DDay #2 he has confronted what he did, how it affected me, and our whole family. He is about 3 weeks shy of a year of sexual sobriety. (I know you aren’t into 12-step, but… .) At this point, in this moment, his integrity disorder is a bigger beast. I believe there are acting out behaviors that he engaged in that are (1) likely illegal and (2) that he finds more shameful than the mass of information he has already disclosed. If I had to bet – and I do love to play the horses, so let me do that here – I would guess that he is withholding info about using escorts, prostitutes, and massage parlors (because I know he was on at least Seeking Arrangements, Backpage, and Craigslist and I’m sure a ton of other sites). If I had to bet further, I would guess that he engaged in those behaviors infrequently because he simply lacked the finances to do it and he never had access to my income (thank god). I actually assume that he did these things. He just needs to jump that last hurdle and own up to them, or whatever it is that he’s disclosed to the therapist and is still keeping from me. I won’t leave him because of behavior I’ve already told myself he engaged in. I will leave him due to ongoing lies and secret keeping.
Since my post I’ve told him that I’m not waiting till after the holidays for the formal disclosure for him to tell me what his therapists and SA buddies already seem to know. I appreciate your support on that. He can fill me in or he can spend the holidays with all of those folks because I’ll be elsewhere with our kids.
Thank you so much for your very thoughtful (and thought provoking)comments. Please do chime in here anytime! I value your perspective.
You ARE doing a commendable job rebuilding yourself. And others. You do a fantastic job articulating your thoughts and emotions as you navigate through both your’s and Handsome’s recovery journeys. I have great admiration for your wisdom, insight and ability to recognize and advocate for your own needs. I see that again here. You will be okay, my friend. xo
Thank you Cynthia! I needed and appreciate those very kind words. It’s a bit of a rough patch right now.
❤️